social structure of the union

[DgiDraco]

posted this in the wrong forum

Hey everyone,
First off let me say thank you to Raph and everyone for voicing thier opinions to wizards at KL. Due to the nature of the formation of our union, we need to establish certain guidelines (Bi-laws) in which we are established to be taken seriously. We have two groups of people in this union (Pros, and Joes) and we need to be able to adhear to both of them. We also have one of the most diverse cultures in the world, but we are within ourselves a culture. We represent people from different backgrounds, countries, and cultures with a common muse, magic: the gathering competitiveness. I have had experience in building non-profit organizations, and working inside of them. I am more than happy to lend my hand in this process. hierarchy is a bad word to choose, what we need is an executive council with representatives from as many regions as possible, maybe 1 pro, 1 PTQ player, who will be voted in annually, and out of those representatives, a judicial branch (president, vice president, secretary, controller (via, dues collector), and possibly a chaplain (one who listens to grievences filed, and helps if need be). We must take this seriously, or we will not be taken seriously. We would need to have meetings. regionally, continentally, and globaly, so that we all can here the view points of the representatives from around the world. Think of this as a United Nations that actually accomplishes something lol. By the way, my name is Tim Morrison, im from Indianapolis, Indiana USA. Im working on a degree in Cultural Anthropology at Ball State University, in Muncie, Indiana USA. Im a PTQ player with aspirations of one day hoping to make PT, but I have a love for this game, and the people that i meet within it that really want me to help this game succeed in whichever way i can. I have played since the tail end of revised, started playing competetively during rath cycle. so anyways, if you guys want to do this, we have to do it balls to the wall, i have ideas to do this, what do you think?

what we need to have:

mission statement
bi-laws
election process
selection process
meeting structure
what each branch is responsible for

[DgiDraco]

i would also like to add, that us as competitive players support the secondary market more than the primary, so that is something that we need to take into consideration when we argue with wizards. we buy singles, not packs.

[Reindeercards]

i would also like to add, that us as competitive players support the secondary market more than the primary, so that is something that we need to take into consideration when we argue with wizards. we buy singles, not packs.

Doesn't that vary a lot from player to player? There are plenty of pros who are drafting fiends.

[Reindeercards]

what we need to have:

mission statement
bi-laws
election process
selection process
meeting structure
what each branch is responsible for

I personally am against having bi-laws. I'm a confirmed hetero and have no interest in experimentation in the name of union solidarity.

Next thing you know, we'd have a bi-camel legislature and the rest of the Magic community will be looking at us like this:

[TreemanX]

what we need to have:

mission statement
bi-laws
election process
selection process
meeting structure
what each branch is responsible for

I personally am against having bi-laws. I'm a confirmed hetero and have no interest in experimentation in the name of union solidarity.

Next thing you know, we'd have a bi-camel legislature and the rest of the Magic community will be looking at us like this:

Oh no, politics in Magic, the End is Nigh
Anyway, Im all for the Players Union as an organized group of competivite players talking to the company of the game we love over issues of the game we love, but let's not be completely drastic.

....soon there will be Political parties(Republicans and Democrats) in the magic community.....

The Union would be representated by the Higher pros like Levy and Karsten because they are the ones that are for the people and are directly in real life terms affected (like this is my job)
As for individual issues, let the people decided via direct polling here on the website. We can have a Direct Democracy on the internet through one site.

[Reindeercards]

what we need to have:

mission statement
bi-laws
election process
selection process
meeting structure
what each branch is responsible for

I personally am against having bi-laws. I'm a confirmed hetero and have no interest in experimentation in the name of union solidarity.

Next thing you know, we'd have a bi-camel legislature and the rest of the Magic community will be looking at us like this:

Oh no, politics in Magic, the End is Nigh
Anyway, Im all for the Players Union as an organized group of competivite players talking to the company of the game we love over issues of the game we love, but let's not be completely drastic.

....soon there will be Political parties(Republicans and Democrats) in the magic community.....

The Union would be representated by the Higher pros like Levy and Karsten because they are the ones that are for the people and are directly in real life terms affected (like this is my job)
As for individual issues, let the people decided via direct polling here on the website. We can have a Direct Democracy on the internet through one site.

To be clear, I'm not against bylaws, just bi-laws.

Bi-camel...

[gleemax]

Are we really talking about charging dues?

This is where Unions start to get a bad rap in America, because dues collected usually go to pay off the president and other union officers. This leads to people being a union officer for the money rather than actually caring. If we're really gonna start charging, we should make it a very nomial fee, perhaps only enough to pay for hosting (do we pay for hosting?) and even then maybe only a 1st time you join fee.

[DgiDraco]

well, honestly i dont want to have a level 5-8 pro represent me, im pretty sure they dont have my best interest in mind. they want their pro tour so THEY get payed, not so I have another way to qualify. This is a hobby, no one should get a free ride through life for hobby gaming, sorry to burst your bubbles. This doesnt mean that i wouldnt mind having a little extra spending cash because of it. KL was represented (by no means am i ungreatful everyone who was there) by PT players, not by the PTQ players. There is a big difference between the two. now if you guys want your extra PT back, you should really read the next few lines of this.

WIZARDS OF THE COAST IS A BUSINESS (THEY ARE HERE TO MAKE MONEY, THATS IT, YOU CANT HOLD THEM TO ANYTHING MORE). THEY ARE OWNED BY HASBRO, THE BIGGEST TOY AND GAME COMPANY IN THE WORLD! HASBRO DOESNT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT US. ITS ALL DOLLARS AND CENTS TO THEM!

so what we need to be able to do is to help Wizards make money, and help them bring back the extra pro tour. yes? good, logical thinking at its finest. now "how do we do that?" youre going to ask. simple. we need to organize ourselves as an international non-profit organization, we can utilize our numbers to helping out in the communities to raise awareness about magic while helping others, this will give wizards a boost in sales and can possibly get it back. we can also discuss these and other ideas with wizards in order to do this. now on that note, let me make something very clear. i could care less how much someone else makes playing this game. i could care less if any of you PT players stay up there, frankly id rather that money be in my pocket, i could really care less if you quit and never play again. please do, id love to get payed. I find it repulsive that grown ass men and women want to bitch like little kids about not getting their allowance. boo fucking hoo. this isnt pro sports, magic doesnt make money off advertising like football (American or European), basketball, baseball. I dont foresee Nike, Reebok, or ADIDAS signing multi-million dollar contracts to players to use thier playmats. if anything, magic is like poker, and even they have a union that does what i mentioned above. you wanna make money? have a TO run a $50 buy in tournament with a pay structure worth a shit. SCG 5000, BGM 1500 winter king, etc. your problem is not with wizards anyways, its with the TO's that dont wanna pay out!!!!

[DgiDraco]

i just suggested dues as a way of having like a mid or end of year banquet that all members can go to, i dunno ideas?

[gleemax]

i just suggested dues as a way of having like a mid or end of year banquet that all members can go to, i dunno ideas?

Are you crazy? Like all of the union memebers would even be able to attend the banquet. Maybe if you did it during a PT, but even then I don't know. Maybe the dues could pay for like a t-shirt or membership card or something. Having an event would be hard since we're so globalized.

[Reindeercards]

i just suggested dues as a way of having like a mid or end of year banquet that all members can go to, i dunno ideas?

Are you crazy? Like all of the union memebers would even be able to attend the banquet. Maybe if you did it during a PT, but even then I don't know. Maybe the dues could pay for like a t-shirt or membership card or something. Having an event would be hard since we're so globalized.

Dues are something to think about for the future. But I'm not so sure this is the right time to ask for them right now. People are just getting used to the idea of the organization. Some are skeptical that we'll really represent anyone other than a handful to top players who are losing money under Wizards changes. Most of the union officials we'll eventually pick are likely to be those same pros. And they'll ask regular players to start sending them money as a condition before being allowed to join up?

Sorry, that just sounds like a scam to part players from their money...and you know those accusations will be made.

We might be better off starting with a "Paypal Donate" link until more trust is built.

I like the t-shirt idea but you'd need a logo and maybe a picture that doesn't use any WotC copyright material. I don't know that any Magic artists would be interested in donating a picture but if there's enough interest, I suppose someone who is well-connected could look into it. Any picture which wouldn't freak out a mom of a 13 year old boy would work...

Though I'll admit to a fondness for the idea of a "dogs playing poker" style of picture but with knights instead of dogs.

[TobiH]

DgiDraco, I don't think we need most of the things you suggested.

I think this organization will be run
1) mostly on the internet
2) by people who do it for free

The idea of a direct democracy, by the way, seems about fine. (To me, at least.)

Also, you seem to be a little confused about the motivation of -- I guess -- most members. I, for example, want the pros to get payed, not because I'm one of them (I'm not), but because I strongly believe that a professional tournament scene is a vital part of what's making Magic tick, and I fear without it WotC's profits will indeed decrease "terminally" and the game will be discontinued.

[BurnBait]

Here's an idea for you: Three boards. Each one is composed of two 'pros' and two 'joes', supervised by one of the founders of this here site. The first of the three boards will be focused on PR, or public relations: Those are the guys who act as direct liasons to WoTC (in a completely advisory position, of course. They only act as spokespeople, not dictators. If they don't follow the wants and needs of the union, they get bumped from it, and WoTC gets a letter about how Johhny Smith or whatever was not, in fact, acting in the best interest of the conglomerate he was chosen to represent). The second will cover the needs of the 'pros', putting forth the general consensus of opinion from that side of the site to the first board, and the third board will do the same for the 'joes'. Each board will be comprised of three elected individuals: One of the founders, and one each of pros and joes. That gives us nine reps. The 'general consensus' I mentioned will be decided by a series of polls all 'pros' or 'joes' can take part in. You'll be placed into one of the two by joining them, like you would join a clan on Magicdeckvortex.com

That's my 2 cents.

[nirvana]

Andy Murray to play Karol Beck at Australian Open

Australian Open, Melbourne
Venue: Melbourne Park Dates: 17-30 January
Coverage: Watch on BBC TV, Red Button, BBC Sport website & Eurosport; listen on BBC 5 live sports extra and online; text commentary online; full details

Murray has slipped to fifth in the world rankings this week

Andy Murray will play Karol Beck in the Australian Open first round and has avoided being drawn in the same quarter as Rafael Nadal or Roger Federer.
The 23-year-old Scot, seeded fifth, is in the same half of the draw as world number one Nadal.
Fellow British number one Elena Baltacha takes on a qualifier in her opening match in Melbourne.
Britons Anne Keothavong, Heather Watson and Katie O'Brien are still involved in the qualifying tournament.
Murray will play Beck for the first time, with the 28-year-old Slovakian currently ranked 104 in the world.

MURRAY'S POSSIBLE ROUTE
R1: Karol Beck (Ranked 104)
R2: Illya Marchenko (78)
R3: Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (33)
R4: Jurgen Melzer (11)
Q/F: Robin Soderling (4)
S/F: Rafael Nadal (1)
F: Roger Federer (2)
Looking ahead, the Briton would play either Illya Marchenko or Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo in the second round and he could meet world number four Robin Soderling in the quarter-finals.
Argentina's former US Open champion Juan Martin del Potro, making his way back after a serious wrist injury, takes on Israel's Dudi Sela in round one and could play Murray in the fourth round.
Nadal, who will hold all four Grand Slam titles if he wins the tournament, will first play Brazilian world number 96 Marcos Daniel, with Feliciano Lopez or John Isner possibly waiting in round three and last year's semi-finalist Marin Cilic in the last 16.
Defending champion Roger Federer, bidding for a record fifth Australian Open title, opens against Lukas Lacko of Slovakia and could meet 12th seed Gael Monfils in the fourth round.
The tie of the first round pits home favourite Lleyton Hewitt against Argentina's 27th seed David Nalbandian in a repeat of the 2002 Wimbledon final, which the Australian won.

606: DEBATE
Your thoughts on the draw
In the women's event, Denmark's world number one Caroline Wozniacki will begin against doubles number one Gisela Dulko from Argentina, while in the same half of the draw Justine Henin faces a qualifier, with Baltacha potentially waiting in round two.
Venus Williams faces Sara Eranni and Russia's Maria Sharapova, the champion in 2008, has been drawn to face Tamarine Tanasugarn of Thailand.
In the bottom half of the draw, US Open champion Kim Clijsters will play former world number one Dinara Safina, now ranked 65, in the first round and second seed Vera Zvonareva meets Sybille Bammer.
Defending champion Serena Williams will be absent as she continues to recover from a foot injury.

Highlights - Federer triumphs at Aussie Open





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