PT Seattle

[Reindeercards]

There is no real PT Seattle at this point. But I'd like to brainstorm about how to make it a reality.

And to be clear about what I'm talking about: I'm talking about the most intentionally cheap, lame-ass Pro tour event that could ever be imagined. WotC doesn't have the money to put on a real PT. So let's talk about how to do one, just one, on the cheap.

And when I say intentionally lame-ass, that's exactly what I mean. There's no way to dress up a PT done cheaply to be anything other than to be other than look cheap. So don't even try. Instead go the opposite direction: no idea is too tacky if it saves money. Bonus points if its something we can look back on years from now and laugh at.

Everyone keeps saying the PT is about seeing friends, playing Magic, and trying to win some money. So strip away as much of the irrelevant parts as possible.

So how can WotC do a PT cheaply?

1) Hold it in Seattle.
They wouldn't have to pay to fly their personnel around or for hotel space or even for breakfast.

2) Get volunteers from WotC employees and Seattle area players to open their homes and let the judge staff sleep over. Why pay for hotel rooms?

3) There's not a real reason an event has to be held in a fancy convention center. All you really need is for it to be indoors out of the wind and rain. Hold it in a warehouse, airplane hanger, or abandoned large store.

4) I don't think we should end the Pro Players Lounge but its definitely a place where we could get tacky. How about providing boiled rice and tap water? Rice is dirt cheap in bulk and no one is going to starve to death eating it for a weekend.

5) Why spend money on life-sized Serra Angels and other useless decorations?

6) A "Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is" contest.
After every PT, the complaints start up about how little coverage there was. So to enter this contest, you pay $5 and get to write a coverage article on a matchup at one of the lowest tables. A WotC judging staff picks the winner who gets a booster box. All the articles, no matter how bad, go up unedited on the WotC site with a disclaimer of "you demanded more coverage, so you got it!"

7) Charge a $20-30 entry fee to the PT.
Yeah, I know, PTs aren't supposed to have an entry fee. But if you are buying a plane ticket from Outer Mongolia to attend the PT, what's an extra $20? Well, its still is $20 but it'll help offset the cost of renting the site. WotC can give out a complimentary deodorant sample to each player so its not like you're getting nothing out of it.

8 ) If you are charging an entry fee, it makes sense to maximize the number of players.
Let every premier TO hold up to three extra PTQs than normal. These will be special "no cash prize" PTQs...whatever prizes the TO offers and the slot is it. Let the TO pick whatever format he wants to run to maximize his turnout.

Hopefully this'll make the PT have the potential to be similar in size to a large Grand Prix. And maximize the number of side events and the money made off of them.

But the real difference between this PT and a Grand Prix will be that all these players with their new Pro Point will be able to see and crave the Pro Tour lifestyle: boiled rice and tap water, plain undecorated tournament areas, important tournament officials imposing on the wives of WotC employees rather than getting a hotel room, and players who don't stink. Who wouldn't want to live the life?

So pitch in with you own comments and suggestions! Let's get the ball rolling!!!

[gleemax]

one big problem with your argument? you state they are paying an entry fee to help offset the rental of the site but that is ridiclous. if they have it in seattle they can hold it at the Wizards office in the lunch room or at some other building they own. Seriously, they just need to chrage enough to cover the staff donuts and pizza fee. Also, give out all prizes in left over dreamblade product.

[turboeli]

Reindeercards: 6) A "Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is" contest.
After every PT, the complaints start up about how little coverage there was. So to enter this contest, you pay $5 and get to write a coverage article on a matchup at one of the lowest tables. A WotC judging staff picks the winner who gets a booster box. All the articles, no matter how bad, go up unedited on the WotC site with a disclaimer of "you demanded more coverage, so you got it!"

This is not a good idea at all. Good, valuable coverage is generally not easy to write. (Though sometimes godsends do happen to fall in your lap once in a while.) Bad coverage has the potential to actually detract from the game's image. The whole point of coverage is to promote the game and provide support for players who want to improve their game and follow the events. And oh, you have to make sure it's entertaining.

You also have the issue of reporters interacting with players in such a way so as to possibly alter the game state. Reporters do things like peek at sideboards or look at players' hands. If they have a dramatic reaction, spoken or visual, that tips off the other player. That's not appropriate, either. Professional work requires attention to standards and letting the match unfold without getting involved. (Except in cases where cheating is going on and no one is catching it.) And if you have amateurs who don't know how to keep themselves out of the game, this idea has a lot of potential to screw up matches.

Of course, I have offered fifty bucks as a prize to people who write their own coverage for local tournaments and post it in the SCG forums. The winner would get the fifty bucks. There's only been one entrant so far. A little competition wouldn't hurt.

There's also disregarding the issue of transportation to the venue, nearby places to stay, providing enough electricity, Internet connections, security, and a host of other logistical problems. Empty warehouses may be OK for raves, but

The bit about boiled rice and water and Wizards people putting up players in their places is clearly satire, though. ^_^

[mercenarybdu]

You guys already had a PT back in 2004 when the Dutch gained a Team Victory over the Japanese in addition to that, the area has already had 3 World Events (1996, 1997, 1998). SF has only had one World event and two GPs (SJ doesn't count as it wasn't actually in SF).

So why hold it there when they could hold one in Dubai (UAE), Baghdad (Iraq), a Second in SF Bay Area (SF, Oakland or SJ) (USA), Moscow (Russia) or Taipei (Taiwan). Most of the areas I have listed have not had a single PT event on record.

As much as I like to promote trying to get another PT on record here, that isn't going to happen soon as promoting is the area is the thing that needs a lot of consideration to change the minds of Wizards itself. SF's Region is always competing with the LA Region just to gain events so if you know people from here you'll always here this if you were to ask them.

[Reindeercards]

one big problem with your argument? you state they are paying an entry fee to help offset the rental of the site but that is ridiclous. if they have it in seattle they can hold it at the Wizards office in the lunch room or at some other building they own.

I seriously doubt they own enough empty floor space to hold Worlds tournament. I've not visited their new office space but I doubt their lunchroom would hold a PTQ in comfort.

[mercenarybdu]

one big problem with your argument? you state they are paying an entry fee to help offset the rental of the site but that is ridiclous. if they have it in seattle they can hold it at the Wizards office in the lunch room or at some other building they own.

I seriously doubt they own enough empty floor space to hold Worlds tournament. I've not visited their new office space but I doubt their lunchroom would hold a PTQ in comfort.

I've never visited their office space at all. but I do know that it isn't enough for 500 people or more by the last time I went to hear about it.

[Reindeercards]

Reindeercards: 6) A "Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is" contest.
After every PT, the complaints start up about how little coverage there was. So to enter this contest, you pay $5 and get to write a coverage article on a matchup at one of the lowest tables. A WotC judging staff picks the winner who gets a booster box. All the articles, no matter how bad, go up unedited on the WotC site with a disclaimer of "you demanded more coverage, so you got it!"

This is not a good idea at all. Good, valuable coverage is generally not easy to write. (Though sometimes godsends do happen to fall in your lap once in a while.) Bad coverage has the potential to actually detract from the game's image. The whole point of coverage is to promote the game and provide support for players who want to improve their game and follow the events. And oh, you have to make sure it's entertaining.

I really doubt that'd be a problem if you put it in its own "contest" section and don't mix it in with the professional coverage.

You also have the issue of reporters interacting with players in such a way so as to possibly alter the game state. Reporters do things like peek at sideboards or look at players' hands. If they have a dramatic reaction, spoken or visual, that tips off the other player. That's not appropriate, either. Professional work requires attention to standards and letting the match unfold without getting involved. (Except in cases where cheating is going on and no one is catching it.) And if you have amateurs who don't know how to keep themselves out of the game, this idea has a lot of potential to screw up matches.

Well, I did mention that the contest coverage would be on the lowest tables. That might not be precaution enough but the thought was there. And I was thinking about having a lot more players than a normal PTQ. After a couple of rounds, you could probably safely pick matches with newcomer vs newcomer.

I'm not married to any of these ideas. I'm just wanting to get some conversation going. If we could come up with ideas to produce a PT on the cheap, its not beyond the realm of possibility that it could happen.

The bit about boiled rice and water and Wizards people putting up players in their places is clearly satire, though. ^_^

It is?

And it was the judging staff I was speaking of, not players.

[gleemax]

one big problem with your argument? you state they are paying an entry fee to help offset the rental of the site but that is ridiclous. if they have it in seattle they can hold it at the Wizards office in the lunch room or at some other building they own.

I seriously doubt they own enough empty floor space to hold Worlds tournament. I've not visited their new office space but I doubt their lunchroom would hold a PTQ in comfort.

Well maybe not at their lunch room, but I'm sure hasbro owns some factories or warehouses in the area they can clean out. If nothing else theres got to be a homeless shelter or something they can get on the cheap. Also, you have to remember that they can save alot of space by not allowing outside vendors of anything to attend. Wizards can be on hand to print, er I mean sell you, any cards you need to buy. Heck they even make sleeves now. Just let MaRo set up a hotdog stand and your set.

Also, your all very too serious for a satire topic. You really need to know when to take things lightly and to recognize sarcasim on the internet.

[verbal]

The thing is, what you are talking about isn't a PT. It's a mega-mega GP, basically.

Which might be worth talking about.

[turboeli]

Well maybe not at their lunch room, but I'm sure hasbro owns some factories or warehouses in the area they can clean out.

If that were the case, you'd have to have the Pro Tour in the PRC.

[Reindeercards]

The thing is, what you are talking about isn't a PT. It's a mega-mega GP, basically.

Which might be worth talking about.

If the pro points and cash prize is the same as a PT, go ahead and call it a poodle for all I care.

For that matter, auction off the rights to run the PT to the premier TOs rather than footing the expense of running it themselves.

[Reindeercards]

From a WotC email to those of us who are Q'ed:

Congratulations on your qualification to Pro Tour-Kuala Lumpur. It is one of the most skill intensive formats in recent years. You can't just get lucky and open 2 Call of the Herds, and somehow survive swiss with an awful 4 color built. We have a few items that we wanted to communicate to you before the show.

The Pro Tour player lounge will not be offered at Pro Tour Kuala Lumpur. However, the computers that allow you to check you email and the Voice-over-IP phone will still be available in the Pro Tour area (near the score keeping table).

Suddenly boiled rice and tap water are looking pretty good, eh?

[gleemax]

From a WotC email to those of us who are Q'ed:

Congratulations on your qualification to Pro Tour-Kuala Lumpur. It is one of the most skill intensive formats in recent years. You can't just get lucky and open 2 Call of the Herds, and somehow survive swiss with an awful 4 color built. We have a few items that we wanted to communicate to you before the show.

The Pro Tour player lounge will not be offered at Pro Tour Kuala Lumpur. However, the computers that allow you to check you email and the Voice-over-IP phone will still be available in the Pro Tour area (near the score keeping table).

Suddenly boiled rice and tap water are looking pretty good, eh?

Wow shafting news everywhere. They probably killed the lounge because they needed the room to hold the confrence. JK LOL.

Anyway, did you actually copy and paste the e-mail or did you just retype it here? If it's a copied exactly then wizards needs to fire they guy who sends these out. A large buisness like Wizards shouldn't be sending out e-mails with typos in them like "the computers that allow you to check you email ". Just wondered if you copied it exactly or not based on this.

[Reindeercards]

From a WotC email to those of us who are Q'ed:

Congratulations on your qualification to Pro Tour-Kuala Lumpur. It is one of the most skill intensive formats in recent years. You can't just get lucky and open 2 Call of the Herds, and somehow survive swiss with an awful 4 color built. We have a few items that we wanted to communicate to you before the show.

The Pro Tour player lounge will not be offered at Pro Tour Kuala Lumpur. However, the computers that allow you to check you email and the Voice-over-IP phone will still be available in the Pro Tour area (near the score keeping table).

Suddenly boiled rice and tap water are looking pretty good, eh?

Wow shafting news everywhere. They probably killed the lounge because they needed the room to hold the confrence. JK LOL.

Anyway, did you actually copy and paste the e-mail or did you just retype it here? If it's a copied exactly then wizards needs to fire they guy who sends these out. A large buisness like Wizards shouldn't be sending out e-mails with typos in them like "the computers that allow you to check you email ". Just wondered if you copied it exactly or not based on this.

A friend who is Q'd sent it to me. I assume he did it as a cut-and-paste.

[mercenarybdu]

All the Pro Lounge comes to no shock and all as they are not as big as cutting programs that everyone liked and all as not everyone gets the chance to go to that section of the Event anyway.

As I would like to see that section will be put into better use for meetings and discussions to settle problems within the system.

[gleemax]

Yeah, but that's the whole point. How much money do they really save by cutting the lounge? Like what are we talking here $200? It's like if they annouced they were doing away with stamping product becuase they wanted to save money on the ink and stamp.

[mercenarybdu]

Yeah, but that's the whole point. How much money do they really save by cutting the lounge? Like what are we talking here $200? It's like if they annouced they were doing away with stamping product becuase they wanted to save money on the ink and stamp.

I'd say $500 in today's market if you include all of the little details to top it all off. As it could be better spent on other things for the event or for a GP.

[Reindeercards]

Yeah, but that's the whole point. How much money do they really save by cutting the lounge? Like what are we talking here $200? It's like if they annouced they were doing away with stamping product becuase they wanted to save money on the ink and stamp.

I'd say $500 in today's market if you include all of the little details to top it all off. As it could be better spent on other things for the event or for a GP.

$500?

Haven't you ever seen Antonio DeRosa eat?

[mercenarybdu]

Yeah, but that's the whole point. How much money do they really save by cutting the lounge? Like what are we talking here $200? It's like if they annouced they were doing away with stamping product becuase they wanted to save money on the ink and stamp.

I'd say $500 in today's market if you include all of the little details to top it all off. As it could be better spent on other things for the event or for a GP.

$500?

Haven't you ever seen Antonio DeRosa eat?

I haven't but I have seen him live when he was in SJ competing for the GP event. If DeRosa eats a lot then it would drive the cost up to over $1000USD.

[gleemax]

hmmm, maybe to save more money wizards needs to start having PT in places wehre the American dollar is stronger.
No more england or japan, lets have a PT Panama or PT Czech Republic. That way they can cut costs by half even if they have to pay for higher plan tickets.

[mercenarybdu]

hmmm, maybe to save more money wizards needs to start having PT in places wehre the American dollar is stronger.
No more england or japan, lets have a PT Panama or PT Czech Republic. That way they can cut costs by half even if they have to pay for higher plan tickets.

I'd like to see the PT in places other than Japan in the APAC region as it would show that you people aren't just overly invested in Japan for that region. How about PT HK? to add to that list.

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